Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
To: Paul M Clements
Cc: colonel@azstarnet.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Status: O
X-Status:
---Paul M Clements wrote:
>
> Sounds like Big Sister is raising her Communistic little head.
> Disarmament is one of their chief goals, has been for decades. Now,
with
> domestic violence rules and this....
>
> Hail to the chief is getting to sound more like "HEIL" TO THE CHIEF!
>
> Paul Clements
> On Thu, 16 Jul 1998 17:44:50 -0700 (PDT) Art Books
> writes:
> >
Any bets about how long our fatherless, adulterer, amoral, lying
Kommander in Chief will be around?
Getting rid of him is the second most important step towards restoring
responsible fatherhood--right after ending affirmative action.
Sincerely,
John Knight
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---"Col. Harry S. Bachstein" wrote:
> >>
> >> From: Mark Driver >> Date: Tuesday, July 14, 1998 4:31 PM
> >> Subject: Fwd: Denver (long)
> >>
> >> The following was initially posted to the IDPA list by Michael
Bane,
> >> MBaneACP@aol.com, who attended the Denver City Council meeting last
> >night.
> >> I obtained permission from Michael to forward it along.
> >>
> >> Mark
> >> -----------------
> >> Hi Folks:
> >>
> >> I'm cross-posting this message to several lists and this is long,
> >but bear
> >> with me.
> >>
> >> Last night, the Denver City Council voted to make the "public
> >nuisance
> >> abatement" ordinance permanent, despite 100s of gun owners and
other
> >> critics of the ordinance (including the ACLU) who filled the
Chamber
> >> Council and nearby rooms to overflowing.
> >>
> >> To borrow a phrase from the Grateful Dead, "it's even worse than it
> >appears."
> >>
> >> Briefly, for gunowners, what this means is that if you're caught in
> >Denver
> >> for any reason (say, a minor traffic stop, an accident, a
roadblock,
> >a
> >> seat-belt check, drunk driving enforcement stops, etc.) and there
is
> >a gun
> >> in your car, your car WILL be confiscated, your weapons WILL be
> >confiscated
> >> and you WILL go directly to jail.
> >>
> >> According to the Denver PD, hunters, target shooters on the way to
> >and from
> >> the range, buyers and sellers of firearms and people "whose lives
> >are
> >> directly threatened" will be able to make an "affrimative defense,"
> >that
> >> is, tell the police that you're legit, and MAYBE they'll let you
> >> go.However, Assistant Denver City Attorney Keith Steigelmeyer
> >expressed
> >> repeatedly his plan to "push" the affirmative defense arguments "up
> >the
> >> line," that is, you still get the affirmative defense--in court. In
> >the
> >> meantime, your car and everything in it is confiscated; your
weapons
> >are
> >> confiscated; you're booked, processed and have to make bail and the
> >city
> >> charges you a towing fee of $80 and an $8 a day storage fee.
> >>
> >> The average "storage time" right now for vehicles WHERE THE DRIVER
> >WAS
> >> FOUND "NON-CULPABLE" (newspeak for "totally innocent") is 30 days.
> >>
> >> Your guns? According to the Denver PD officer directly in charge of
> >> administering the program, "IT IS THE POLICY OF THE CITY OF DENVER
> >TO NEVER
> >> RETURN WEAPONS THAT HAVE BEEN SEIZED FOR CAUSE." You may get your
> >car back,
> >> but you're going to have to go to court to get your guns back--even
> >if you
> >> are TOTALLY innocent.
> >>
> >> And you may not get the car -- if your car is leased, or has a loan
> >or lien
> >> on it, Denver informs your leasor or lienholder. The small print in
> >your
> >> loan or lease allows the car to be repossessed IMMEDIATELY if it is
> >seized
> >> by a governmental agency. According to the Denver PD, this is what
> >is
> >> actually happening.
> >>
> >> Again, all this happens BEFORE your guilt or innocence is
> >established.
> >>
> >> Assistant City Attorney Steigelmeyer insists that hunters and
> >shooters in
> >> "complete compliance" with Denver ordinances have nothing to fear.
> >However,
> >> Denver ordinances are complex (the city has its own "assault
weapon"
> >and
> >> lookalike ban, for example), vague and apparently designed to trip
> >up the
> >> unwary. The ordinances provide that any weapon in a car either be
> >unloaded
> >> and locked in the trunk or somewhere "out of the passenger
> >compartment." If
> >> the weapon is in the passenger compartment, it must be TOTALLY
> >UNCONCEALED,
> >> unloaded and "incapacitated" (which, apperently, means a trigger
> >lock). If
> >> the gun is not totally visible, it is CONCEALED, and you will be
> >treated
> >> accordingly. BTW, if the gun is totally visible, it is "probable
> >cause" for
> >> you to be stopped by the Denver police.
> >>
> >> According to the lawyer I spoke with, even a valid, statewide CCW
is
> >only
> >> considered "affirmative defense." At the discression of the officer
> >on the
> >> scene, you may be arrested, your car and your legal gun
confiscated,
> >even
> >> if you have a valid CCW. Again, according to what was stated at
last
> >> night's council meeting, your gun will not be returned to you.
> >>
> >> THE BOTTOM LINE: If you travel with guns in Denver, YOU ARE AT
RISK.
> >The
> >> vehicle provisions of the "nuisance abatement act" are apparently
> >> SPECIFICALLY TARGETED AT LEGAL GUN OWNERS. The ordinance HAS BEEN
> >USED
> >> AGAINST LEGAL GUNOWNERS ALREADY, and, now that it's permanent, the
> >Denver
> >> PD has already said they will be stepping up enforcement.
> >>
> >> My personal advice is avoid DENVER. Do not book hunts in Colorado;
> >do not
> >> attend matches that require to to fly into DIA or travel through
> >Denver and
> >> SKI IN UTAH.
> >>
> >> **********************************************
> >>
> >> COL. HARRY S. BACHSTEIN
> >> http://members.aol.com/bach11/adventurer.htm
> >> "Man is not my Ultimate Judge."
> >> **************************************************/
> >> NEW! The Colonel has joined STEELHORSE MAGAZINE /
> >> http://www.steelhorsemag.com
> > /
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Dear Colonel,
> >
> >Why can we not require that the city of Denver be required to conduct
> >a cost/benefit analysis which adds up all the costs of implementing
> >this law (enforcement officers, incarceration costs, lost income,
lost
> >guns, lost vehicles, increased litigation costs, etc.) and divides
> >this by the anticipated number of lives saved.
> >
> >In other words, if this law does NOT reduce gun fatalities, the
> >cost/benefit is infinite.
> >
> >Most likely this will be the case.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
From bounce-online-news-20155@clio.lyris.net Fri Jul 17 13:39:10 1998
>From bounce-online-news-20155@clio.lyris.net Fri Jul 17 13:39:10 1998
Received: from clio.lyris.net (clio.lyris.net [207.90.155.3])
by pony-2.mail.digex.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA16454
for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 13:39:05 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from 204.144.142.2 by clio.lyris.net (Lyris SMTP service); 17 Jul 98 10:34:30 PDT7 from: to:
Received: from indra.com (net.indra.com [204.144.142.1])
by server.indra.com (8.8.5/) with ESMTP id MAA07229
for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 12:26:46 -0600 (MDT)
Received: from headwall.maine.com (headwall.maine.com [204.176.0.12])
by indra.com (8.8.5/Spike-8-1.0) with SMTP id LAA23323
for ; Fri, 17 Jul 1998 11:37:26 -0600 (MDT)
Received: (qmail 19373 invoked by uid 507); 17 Jul 1998 17:46:02 -0000
Message-ID:
Subject: Re: 'What, Me Worry' about real estate classified online From: Art Books Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
How the Web Was Won
Subject: Re: 'What, Me Worry' about real estate classified online
From: Art Books
Date: Fri, 17 Jul 1998 10:11:38 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: from Steve Outing at "Jul 17, 98 10:52:42 am"
To: online-news@planetarynews.com
Cc: online-news@planetarynews.com
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit