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-----------> This message was posted to the ONLINE-NEWS list. <-----------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel P Dern [mailto:ddern@world.std.com]
> Sent: Thursday, July 23, 1998 1:51 PM
> YMMV, but I beg to differ; while there may be cases where identity of the
> speaker is irrelevant, there certainly are many where that isn't true.

Dan:

I'm not saying that identities and affiliations aren't important when
judging a statement. I'm saying that identities and affiliations aren't
mandatory for judging a statement.


You do raise an interesting sub-thread (fiber?). Let's look at the first
example that you provided:
>"Windows 98 is the best operating system I've ever seen."

By itself, this statement doesn't tell me anything about why it could be
true. It's a statement of belief, not reason. It doesn't matter if Bill
Gates or my computer-illiterate Aunt Joan said it. There are only three
situations when the affiliations behind a statement of belief matters:
	1) Conversion: If Steve Jobs had made that statement of belief, then the
affiliation means something.
	2) Demonstrable results: I don't belief Bill Gates' glowing testimonials
published in ads for Big Bertha golf clubs. After all, he's only a duffer.
But I might believe Arnold Palmer making the same testimonial (if I also see
him using those clubs in tournaments). Correspondingly, if Gates says
'Window 98 is the best operating system to use', I won't believe him; but if
he said 'Windows 98 is the best operating system to sell', I would. If
demonstrable results by the speaker can logically be linked to a statement
of belief, then affiliation matters.
	3) Implied objectivity: If an objective computer consultant like yourself
made the statement above, I'd pay attention to the statement, but I'd
nevertheless realize that you haven't yet given me any reason why the
statement is true.

> If a consultant praised a vendor, wouldn't you want to know if
> that vendor was also a client of theirs?  Similar point.

Likewise, that should be disclosed because it would throw doubt on a
statement. Yet, I'm still going to judge a statement by its inherent logic
rather than the affiliation and identity of its speaker.

Affiliation and identity are extra information that can add or subtract from
a statement, but they aren't mandatory for judging the statement itself.

Xerxes and I frequently argue against each other's positions; but we argue
about the positions, not each other. To make identities and affiliations
mandatory is indeed to make arguments ad hominem. Judge the statement, not
the speaker.

But this isn't a semiotics listserv. I digress.

Vin Crosbie


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