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Larry--

Thank you for your message.  I was moved by the first part--your sharing
about your Dad and the presence of your grandparents.  It was beautiful.

Your assessments of people struck me as odd and unnecessary.  It seemed
to create a lot of separateness/separation (of people and their ideas). 
I may have missed your intention. 

Jane

LHanawalt@aol.com wrote:
> 
> >From Larry:
> The language of dialogue
> To co-creators
> For a breakthrough in Self-expression
> 
> My Dad died yesterday.  Mom was with him.  She said it was as if he finally
> figured out how to go.  He had been talking about "getting out of here," and
> getting "up there" and trying to climb out of bed as if that were the way.
> When he died it was extraordinarily peaceful.  He just stopped breathing, then
> soon his heart stopped  beating.  No effort, no struggle, no agony.  We feel
> blessed as a family that we had the last few months with him and with each
> other to "say everything," and that it didn't stretch out.
> 
> I don't try to talk about this much, but I have felt the presence of my
> grandparents since their death.  My Dad is present as I type these words.
> It's as if we incorporate and give expression to everyone who has gone
> before--and to everything, all of it.  Who I am is my grandfather and my
> father; who I am is all of humanity, all it it.  And that is so for each of
> us.
> 
> The tragi-comedy of our lives is that most of the time we live and act with
> little or no "inkling" of that.
> 
> One way of looking at the "drama"--such as Jean's being hurt by Vip's
> demonstration that his brains must have been fucked out long ago--is the
> Wisdom distinction about whether the eternal speaks to each of us primarily
> through Truth, Beauty, or Goodness.
> 
> Those of us in the Goodness camp will prefer that nothing be said or done
> which could break anyone's sense of belonging.  We are the "make nice" folks.
> 
> Those of in the Truth brigade will be less sensitive to how others feel, more
> committed to saying what's there to be said.
> 
> The Beauty-lovers must wonder what all the noise is about.
> 
> Based on that distinction, here are some observations:
> 
> Janet is so Relationship (Goodness) oriented that it took her a long time to
> tell the truth about her impatience, so long that it had a kind of snottiness
> or bitchiness about it when it finally got expressed.  (And it was perfect, of
> course.)
> 
> Vip will say what is lying around to be said, and let Relationship be damned.
> 
> Jean has good Goodness collapsed with moralistic and undistinguished middle
> class standards about what must and must not be said or done.  (Jean is a
> powerful stand for Goodness, and is sorting out what works from what doesn't.)
> 
> Ina is so appreciative of and absorbed in Beauty that she doesn't listen very
> well to the "in-between" and is prone to pontification.
> 
> Brian is Goodness and Beauty, and prefers truth to be a matter of inquiry,
> discovery, exploration.  "Calling a spade a spade" isn't his style.  I read
> his responses since Janet's comment on "orations about the obvious" as
> defensive, as if they had been aimed directly at him.   Brian, is your current
> "mathematical" form of expression a way of taking yourself away: "ok, if you
> want brevity, I'm going to take my prose and go home"?
> 
> Andrew is Truth and Beauty, and sounds to me to be willing to write people off
> who are less evolved.
> 
> Gail is Goodness, Truth and Beauty.
> 
> Lucinda, you are a mystery to me.  Your message on D.H. Lawrence on fucking
> was just plain wierd.  It didn't seem to me to speak to any issue that had
> been raised; and a note apparently in defense of fucking which avoids saying
> the f-word strikes me as hilariously hypocritical.  My guess is that you are
> Beauty first, truth second, and less at home in the Goodness/Relationship
> realm.
> 
> Then there are those of you who brag about deleting these damn e-mails without
> reading them (based on whether you have liked that person's earlier
> contributions, I guess).  This sounds like self-righteous voyeurism.  You will
> judge without participating.  Why don't you have your name removed from the
> list?  Some of you won't be reading this, of course, or will have deleted it
> before you get to this paragraph, in which case I'm perfectly free to say
> "fuck you" without consequences.  Talk about "already always listening."  You
> have been wasting your time and money on these courses.  Please explain to me
> the point of keeping yourself on a list so that you can complain about it.
> The next time I hear it, I promise to make sure you get deleted--at least from
> my version of the list.
> 
> Ray Fulcher is an off-the-scale Goodness guy.
> 
> Seth, your contributions have been favorites of mine because they stretch me
> to see if I can think what you are thinking.  You are at home in the company
> of Socrates and Plato--and you wouldn't hit it off with Aristotle.
> 
> I wish we heard more from Kate, Shirley, Lynn Casto, Kathy DiBenedetto.
> Robyn's joining us has raised the level of discourse.  Sue Bauter's posts
> early on struck me as preachy, condescending--and that tone has completely
> disappeared from her "speaking."  Sue, I thought your sharing notes from the
> course was perfect, valuable, a brilliant way of bringing focus to the
> conversation.
> 
> This is "growth and development" for me.  I know that "relatedness" is handled
> for me.  I am loved.  You all have room for me to say anything--whether or not
> you like what I say.  I prefer listening, being still, but I think I have also
> used that as an excuse not to say things that are lying around to be said.
> And those are the things which can lead us into new territory.
> 
> My Dad was a straight talker, and you will probably be hearing more of "him"
> from now on.  Maybe I'm climbing the ladder from Goodness to Truth to Beauty.
> 
> Love,
> Larry


From sbauter@juno.com Sun Aug 16 18:51:56 1998
>From sbauter@juno.com  Sun Aug 16 18:51:56 1998
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Subject: Re: Irony, Accountability, Specificity From: Jane Mermelstein  Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:24:09 -0400
How the Web Was Won
Subject: Re: Irony, Accountability, Specificity
From: Jane Mermelstein 
Date: Sun, 16 Aug 1998 18:24:09 -0400

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