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On Fri, 14 Apr 1995, Michael Cassidy wrote:

> At 1:28 PM 4/13/95, Mitch Ratcliffe wrote:
> >>At 10:55 PM 4/12/95, meyer@newslink.org wrote:
> >>If you come to my site, I have every right to track what links you go to.
> >>Many people I talk to are considering detailed registration forms as
> >>"subscription" payament -- proof to the advertiser that we are getting the
> >>demographic readership we say we are; that is if you wish to see all of my
> >>site you must fill in a registraion form giving certain information -- some
> >>of the information will be required, some will be voluntary.
> >
> >The point I raised has to do with the nature of the links provided by
> >Yahoo, which cut to the very personal interests of Web users (i.e.,
> >political views, gay and lesbian issues, sexuality). As the site goes
> >commercial, it will be important that the average joe be informed about new
> >uses of the information collected by Yahoo. I've no problem with collecting
> >information, if the consumer is informed what information is being
> >collected and how it will be used. I, for one, would not cotton to a site
> >that gave my name and interests to an advertiser. I'm more comfortable --
> >but not entirely so -- with a site that collects demographic information
> >that is decoupled from my identity.
I suppose it could be a bit embarrassing if my posts to alt.sex.bondage 
and my posts to this group and my posts to alt.child.support and my posts 
to alt.12step were all forwarded to Newt Gingrich :-).  He might start 
advocating "pleasure whippings of all dead-beat dads" and execution of 
all alcoholics and drug addicts (if recovery makes us this dangerous...:-)

> So I can assume Seybold hasn't sold my name (I subscribe to both magazines)
> to anyone. Publications have been gathering information on the readers
> since there were publications.
It's even easier to find out what people want on the internet.  The 
newsgroups, for example, are broken into 14,000+ groups.  You can even 
find (sorting by subject) women looking for short fat bald men :-).

> This is only a difference of degree; what I
> now know is who is looking at the Mercedes ad and not just who bought my
> magazine.
With the internet, I can even find out who WANTS to read my Mercedes ad.  
If they click on the button, or go to the url, they're interested.  If 
they click on "Test Drive today" button, they are HOT.  Compare this to
the New York Times where 99% of the subscribers won't even keep my 
SECTION of the paper past the first wastebasket, let alone see my ad.

Newsgroups and Web Pages are a demographic paradise!  Imagine reaching 
2000 hot prospects by providing information they specifically REQUESTED!

If you use the 30 million clients, 1 million servers rule, the odds that 
each server will get hit at least once are pretty good.  When you add the 
groupings, sortings, and search technology available via WAIS/YAHOO...
you can quickly get 30 hot prospects who can't wait to read your Web Page.
Flat text files are still very useful.

> If you aren't comfortable with W3 sites collecting information I
> assume, also, you buy all your publications on the newstand; tell me the
> publications you subscribe to; and combine that with your zipcode and U.S.
> census information;
Since you can get the census on-line, I can almost determine who you are.
Do I want you to know how many kids I "really have", no!

> and I know alot about you; AND if you are willing to
> join one of our surveys (and I am always surprised how great a number of
> people do (we have readers asking us to join our reader survey because a
> friend recievd one and they didn't) we have alot of first hand information
> about the reader. Do I think an individual's personal demographic
> information will be sold by some publication: yes. Do I think this will be
I circle the bingo cards!  When I get a publication that provides 
advertizers that I want to check out, it's GREAT to be able to get 
glossys from 30 or 40 of those "business card ads" in the back of the 
magazines.

There are also those "fill out this form and get a free subscription to 
Open Systems Today".  Even when my shop was mostly "blue", I made sure 
that I counted every unix system and knew what we were going to want.  I
buy, reccommend or evaluate almost everything (keyboards to mainframes).

On the net, however, I can actually go to comp.os.* and get first-hand 
feedback from users, get urls to vendor home pages, and even get to "fill 
in the form by clicking the buttons" RFPs and RFQs.  The web is one small 
part of big picture, the "Glitzy part", it makes great glossies, but it's
like the pictures in a magazine.  Without the text hardcopy, it doesn't 
mean much.

I am looking forward to prodigy becoming an internet server.  There is a 
service where I can get quotes from 40 vendors on various products.  On 
the internet, I can "wais-search" for bids.  I would like to be able to 
say "I need 6 4gig drives by tomorrow, who has what, at what price".  If 
I can wait til next week, I might get a lower price.

> the industry norm: no. There are reasons for not even giving Mercedes the
> number hits on their ad as oppose to the hits on my site. Right now they
> pay for my full circulation (unless they do a regional ad) if they only get
> hit by 80,000 of my 100 million readers my publisher may be very sad when
The interesting part is when they suck out my history list and hot pages.
If you have lots of different interests, it could get interesting.  I'm
not sure I would want to visit the Mercedes screen immediately after 
reviewing a "debt counceling" ad, even though I was browsing the ad for 
someone else.

> they demand that the rate they pay also be reduce. I also think most
> publication feel protective of their readers -- they are important to us;
Again, Yahoo indexes, like WAIS indexes would be a great "starting point",
because it guides the server, publication, and advertizer in what will 
best serve the reader.  If you know the reader was looking for an RX-7, 
and that he lives in Denver, you can tell him where he can test drive an M-3.
You might even want to point him at some used cars in the area.

My dealer might not want to sell my Protege for me, but if maintains the 
resail value, Masda might put my '94 ad on their page for New Jersey.
Guess what I'll be looking at next.

> they are what we sell to the advertisers; so most publications are not
> going to go out of their way to antagonize their subscribers.
The publication and the advertizer actually have a common interest.  They 
each want to provide information that would best serve the customer.  The 
net gives a whole new dimension to the distinction service.

For that service, the reader (pressed for time anyway) will be willing to 
pay a reasonable fee in subscriptions, commissions, and service charges.

Rex Ballard


From rballard@cnj.digex.net Mon Apr 24 22:17:35 1995
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