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On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, S. Finer wrote:

> Rex's piece below tends to confuse real risk with perceived risk, a 
> mistake commonly made by empiracists when dealing with political issues.  
> The perception of the cyberporn problem is greater than the actual risk, 
> but in a political environment, perceptions are more important than 
> actual incidence.  

My original point, the relative threat of the internet vs. the relative 
threat of other social structures are disproportionally representated.  I 
personally beleive that this has more to do with the political agenda of 
trying to censor and restrict access to the internet - eliminating the 
wide-open forum that cannot be censored (by design I might add) in which 
corporate, economic forces, and political factions can be threatened by 
embarrassing information - than it has to do with protecting children.

There are ways to restrict certain types of access - (web pages for 
example) by identifying hosts which publish questionable content, and 
identifying hosts which do not wish to receive that content - subnets 
with these designations could be protected by routing filters.  Have 
certain class-a subnet addresses designated as "family values", and have
other subnets designated as "perverts and liberals", and put a routing 
filter that protects "families" from "perverts" on the IP backbones.

The problem, when you consider the possibility of proxy and proxy-proxy 
links is that the bridge hosts can be used to transend the barriers.  The 
only possible way to impliment the Exon ammendment is to completely split 
the internet into a privately funded "anything goes" network, and a 
separate federally funded (or church funded) "good for kids" network.
The "adults only" faction is the force that has always pioneered all 
forms of Media.  If the "adults only" community were banned, they would
come up with something even better elsewhere.

> Parents with little or no understanding of cyberspace are appalled that 
> their kids can get into trouble inside their own homes, in their rooms, 
> using a computer purchased for educational purposes.  This is shocking to 
> them.  

They had better ditch their televisions, VCRs, radios, telephones, and 
even writing utensils.  They had better make sure that their kids never 
leave the house.  The world is risky, there are people who want to have 
sex, or at least want to find out about it.  Some of them are under 18.
Let's not forget babysitters.

Try spending a few years at 12 step programs.  The incedence of incest 
and rape is almost 90% for women, 80% for men.  Most were molested by 
their own parents, step-parents, or close relatives.  Many of those in 
these groups who weren't molested by adults were molested by other 
children who were molested by adults.  The most common time for this is 
during the summer months when the shortage of adult supervision and 2 
income families or working single-parent families are forced to leave 
their children in minimal supervision situations with no supervision of 
the adult "babysitter".   If you want to get serious about ending 
child-hood incest, keep the schools open 12 months/year.

> I have made replies to several of your points below, inside astericks.
> 
> On Fri, 30 Jun 1995, Rex Ballard wrote:
> 
> > Senator Exon was very clever.  He used a book of pictures downloaded from 
> > usenet (a sophisticated forum containing over 16,000 news-groups), frome
> > groups such as alt.sex.binaries.bondage (any innocent child would 
> > accidentally read this), using a "cut here, uudecode, view with a special 
> > GIF reader..." type of protocol, from a server that carries every type of 
> > newsgroup (for which you must have a user account), and forgot to mention 
> > that the Terms of the server account included a stipulation that you were 
> > over 18, provided a credit card number, and had to use a passworded account.

My point here is that he didn't say anything about how he got the 
pictures, he just put a book full of the filthiest pornography he could 
obtain through his assistant's carefully managed research (he really had 
to dig for some of them).

> Many ISPs accept personal checks.  Many adults grant access to their net 
> accounts to their adolescents,

So, in order to make up for the parent's negligence, we have to prevent 
every liberal who admits an interest in sex.  God forbid they might be 
interested in some alternative sexuality.  There are plenty of boards 
which offer restricted access - (including prodigy and aol) and don't 
carry the extreme alt.sex.* news groups.  Give the kids access to that 
board.  Let the churches set up their own Internet servers.  Anyone who 
has set up a fire-wall knows that it is possible to protect either direction.

> and online services give access to 
> newsgroups too. A smart 12 year old can figure out the uudecode methods to 
> resolve GIFs and JPEGs. It is not brain surgery. 

A smart 12 year old can also figure out how to sniff airplane glue, get 
drunk on mouthwash, or (in most neighorhoods) score a gram of coke.  He 
already has highly evolved fantasies which he doesn't understand and 
can't communicate with anyone in face to face.  In all likelihood he has 
already been approached by adults and other minors.  You might be able to 
make a case for protecting a 6 year-old, even a 9 year-old, but the 12 
year-old is going to be looking for trouble -- or not.

> > He pointed out that 10 children were lured into actual "contact" 
> > molestation experiences through their activities on the internet.
> 
> NO REX...these are the number of cases in which indictments were 
> brought...no one knows the number of actual cases......and with accounts 
> growing constantly, the absolute incidence is probably also growing.

The question is - even if it's only 100 incedents per million, is that so 
much were than the 75% of all children of alcholics who are molested in 
their own homes, or the 30% of all children who are molested by their 
step-fathers, or the 10% of all children molested in their own schools 
(by other children)?

> > Based on statistical instances of actual incest/molestation, there is 
> > more cause to shut down Christian Churches, the Boy Scouts, the 4H club, 
> > and all summer camps, than there is to censor the internet.
> 
> I have heard this allegation before, but there is no hard evidence it is 
> true....this is one of those allegations brought by axe grinders...but 
Check the indightment records, dyfss records, or actual conviction 
records.  Check with the programs that treat survivors of incest.  Check 
with your local mental health center.  Go to a few hundred A.A. meetings 
or N.A. meetings - where hundreds tell the same story about how some 
person whom their parent(s) trusted, or their parents.

> unsubstantiated.  The thing is that parents have a chance to gauge Church 
> staff, Scout leaders, camp staff, etc. 

Parents get to see what these organizations want them to see.  Most of 
the people who work in these organizations are responsible, productive, 
and committed to the welfare of the children.  But within these groups 
there are often wolves in sheep's clothing.

> But with the net, parents have no 
> idea who may be interacting with their kids, while the kid is inside 
> his/her own room at home.  Parents perceive this as an extra threat. 

The difference is joe net.poster isn't in the room with the kids.  Kids 
should probably be required to pass a basic "net exam" the same way ham 
radio operators are required to pass a test on communications law.  I 
operated my first ham radio station when I was 11 years old.  I gave a 
call signal that could be traced back to my home address.  With an 
internet ID, especially a mail account, it is very difficult to trace 
someone back to their home address (without a warrant).

On the internet, privacy has always been a major issue.  For years we 
never gave out women's names as login IDs.  In the e-mail, men would
correspond as women, just to see what kind of flood of e-mail they would get.

> > Pedophiles don't go to forums populated with primarily adult males, to 
> > pick up children.  They join organizations where they will be placed in 
> > positions of trust and are in close proximity to many children and few 
> > adults.  The best target professions for molestors would be "Sunday 
> > School teacher", "Boy scout troop leader", "Den Master", "Little League 
> > Coach", or "Summer Day Camp councillor".
> 
> Again, Rex, this is your opinion, it has not been demonstrated by valid 
> means.  Organizations have documented the existence of pedophiles on 
> online services, and adults who may or may not be pedophiles, but seem to 
> seek out conversation with children---sometimes suggesting meetings.  

Conviction records, DYFSS records, formal complaints, scores of studies 
of incest survivors (especially adult survivors), and studies of 
alcoholics and addicts (over 80% are survivors) in treatment centers
tends to back up my accusations.  This converstation has been going on 
since the Meese Commission tried to make their claims about child 
pornography and the internet.

> > Having spent 15 years as a volunteer working with a group of adults where 
> > 95% have been incested, molested, or raped, I have some idea of what I'm 
> > talking about.
> I am sure you have "some" idea Rex, but a little knowledge is a dangerous 
> thing.  Politically speaking, some type of effort must be made to give 
> parents a greater sense of control over their kids' activity online.  

There are two good ways for responsible parents to know what their kids 
are doing.  First, they can be there with their kids and teach them which 
areas are not appropriate, or they can get their kids connected to a 
protected host (only carries certain news-groups, only supports news and 
mail....

I might point out that one of the reported incedents in Time Magazine was 
a pedophile who was on a children's "game" chat group.  Again, backing the
contention that the pedophile will approach the children on "safe" areas,
not on "alt.sex.bondage".

> Censorship of the net is a bad way to do this---a better way is to put 
> tools into parents hands, easy to use tools, cheaply available tools, 
Hate to say it, but most of the design of the internet was actually 
designed by college kids and computer professionals for the explicit 
purpose of being able to route around "protection" which is percieved as 
a "damaged router".  Given a functional account, even on a "kosher" host,
short of only allowing access to specific subnets and hosts (via 
fire-wall technology), a student can pass through protected networks into 
unprotected networks, then to "verboten" material.  Largely this was a 
function of college kids trying to bypass draconian measures aimed at 
trying to censor the net.

> that will give parents better control over what their kids see and read 
> via the net while they are still underage.  
Such measure will only work if the parents are willing to submit to the 
same restrictions as they place on their children.  We could designate 
those "family-net" addresses and have the "porno servers" exclude them in 
their routing masks (route them through localhost until it dies).  If the
parents have an "alternate" host id, the curious kids - looking for porn 
to impress their friends with - will get to the smut.

> The opponents of the CDA would do well for their cause to forget trying 
> to convince the majority of their countrymen that there is no 
> problem---continuing down that path is pointless,

There is a serious fundamental problem - an infrastructure which does not 
provide sufficient adult supervision for over 90 days/year.  An economic 
structure in which both parents must work a total of 100 hours to meet 
their basic obligations - away from their homes.  A social structure 
which encourages postponement of marriage for nearly 12 years after the 
onset of puberty (until the late 20th century, most women were married in 
their early teens, most men in their late teens).  A "sex education" 
program which never addresses the fundamentals of love/sex/intimacy and 
the marital relationships.  As Jim Dobsen says: "most people spend more time 
learning to drive a car than they spend learning how to nurture a 
marriage".  We don't even teach the "uniform dissolution of marriage 
act", which, if taught, would be something both men and women would go to 
any lengths to avoid (including making sure that they didn't rush the 
marriage/child-bearing until they knew they were willing to spend the 
rest of their life with that person).

I knew in detail what my constitutional rights were. I didn't know what 
my paternal and marital rights were (in 3 different states) until 3 
months before the divorce.  No one should be allowed to marry - until 
they can pass a written or oral exam on the basic points of the uniform 
dissolution of marriage.  Every boy over the age of 12 should be taught 
the "paternity responsibilities" portion - and know that he will be 
responsible for child-support for any child concieved by a woman with 
whom he has intercourse within 3 weeks of the probable conception date.
(Too many "men/boys" count on winning the "blood test lottery").  It 
would certainly make him think twice about bragging about who he had sex 
with.  If every man who bragged about his recent conquests were held 
accountable for the consequences - pregnancy..

Off my soap-box... Back to the topic...

> they will be ROLLED in 
> 99% of the fora where the issue gets debated.
Interesting isn't it?  The only truly public debate is going on right 
here on the internet.  How many concerned individuals are willing to 
stand against Exon's "blue book" in a public forum?

>  Instead, the CDA opponents 
> would do well to suggest alternative means of protecting kids without 
> heavy handed censorship. 

Protecting kids from a few "dirty letters" is like trying to drain lake 
ontario with a sieve.  There are so many areas that could be addressed 
which would really make a difference.

In fact, the very groups that are being targeted are those who provide 
some of the most useful resources for repairing the damage of incest.  
Often, an incest survivor is introduced to sexually arousing experiences 
before he realizes that they are not appropriate for someone that young.  
The victim is introduce to the exprience as a "game", similar to "playing 
doctor".  When the incest is discovered, the perpetrator is removed, the 
victim is told how bad that was, and left with overwhelming shame and 
guilt which can ultimately lead to alcoholism, drug addiction, suicide,
or a lifestyle of either isolation or rebellion.

For many survivors, the internet newsgroups is the first place where they 
can actually communicate with others who have been down their path.  
Alt.sex.bondage is frequented by many people who cannot enjoy sex if they 
are held responsible for it.  As they start to discuss their peculiar 
tastes with others who share their special "tastes", they find that they 
can begin to communicate with tharapists and councillors on a 
face-to-face basis -- something they could not do prior to sharing on 
the internet.  Through this type of sharing, they are able to learn to 
communicate and to seek long-term relationships (even marriages) to 
partners with similar or complimentary desires.  This is a much better 
alternative than developing a dependency on prostitutes who 
dress-to-impress and forget to mention the terminal diseases they are 
carrying.

Until the internet, there were no safe places for trangenders, 
transvestites, bisexuals, femme-lesbians, or submissives and dominants to 
conduct a safe non-threatening converstion.  For them, the damage is not 
reversable.  The sexuality was programmed at such an early age, that they 
couldn't reverse it without becoming asexual.

I personally struggled with my issues until I was over 30 years old 
before I was able to share them - first on an internet news group, later 
with a trusted friend, and later with mental health professionals.  I was
lucky.

	Rex Ballard
	Personal Post.






From rballard@cnj.digex.net Wed Jul  5 19:24:19 1995
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