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	Rex Ballard - Director of Electronic Distribution
	http://cnj.digex.net/~rballard


On Fri, 9 Feb 1996, fathers wrote:

> Dear Rex,
> 
> Thank you for the observations about how we might improve the 
> communications here.  We surely do need to do something different.
> 
> One idea has been to post all of the messages at one web site, but this 
> has not gotten much interest.  A list server would be a good idea, though 
> this needs some further investigation. And an Internet relay Chat (IRC) 
> should be considered.

IRC is time-dependent.  More useful is to have a combination of an alt.*
(alt.child-support, alt.men, alt.family already exist) newsgroup.  There 
are also soc.* and talk.* groups.  In addition, it is good to keep a web
archive of the the dialogue and provide WAIS search capability (WAIS 
searching makes sure that it is included in "global" searches).

We could echo this group into a newsgroup and/or archive it into the 
server that serves the "Father's Manifesto" home-page.  Add a CGI 
interface to facilitate searching by subject...

> Most of those in this discussion started out in Newsgroups and just got 
> frustrated with the feminist male bashing, including yours truly.  The 
> Femisa debate still sticks in my craw and I just don't have the patience 
> to mess with them any more.

Femisa is just a mailing list.  There are certain tactics, such as 
"compassionate cross-examination" that can reveal the "flip side" of the 
dead-beat dad debate.  When "Mindy the Spaz-Girl" blasted men for posting 
to the group, I found out that she was married for the third time.  She 
married a beater the first time, then married a "party-boy" and had his 
baby and expected him to become responsible.  Then she divorced him, 
moved to the country, and married a third.  While married to the third, 
living a farmer's lifestyle, she is going after the second to support the 
child of the first and the second.  (I'm summarizing from memory and 
would have to recheck my logs for the facts).

Engaging in friendly inquiries gives access to very interesting 
information.  I remember engaging in several dialogues with a 
conservative who espoused "family values" and the imprisonment of fathers 
of children of welfare recipients.  It turned out that he was the grand 
WAZIR of the Klu Klux Klan.  On a subsequent national television 
interview, they pointed out some of his unusual solutions to the  welfare 
problem.  The guy was just to the Right of Hitler.  He sounded quite a 
bit like "Billy-boy".  He wanted to put the "Dead-beat-dads" in jail, put 
the welfare-mothers into compounds, and put the kids in religeous 
education programs.

Does any of this sound familiar?

> We need open communication with our own compatriots which does not 
> invite feminist attacks, and the way to do this still escapes me.  I 

Feminist attacks are good for generating a position that will actually be 
palatable to the general population.  Extremist views, incubated in a 
cloistered culture, are recieved as the rantings and ravings of cultist 
extremists.  When one engages in an open discussion which includes both:
 
the mother who was raped by her husband, grossly disfigured her before 
the divorce, and then refuses to pay any of his million dollar estate to 
support her, forcing her and her children to live in a Red Cross Shelter, 
AND
the father who was tricked into sleeping with a woman who then named 
him the father of her child, demanded and got 80% of his income, put him 
in jail for violating the restraining order, and only when he was put on 
trial did the blood test reveal that he wasn't the real father.

Most people fit between these two extremes.  Feminists pushed for legal 
reforms to prevent the former.  Now, an open debate will prevent the 
latter.  You WON'T be able to persuade the extremist opposition, but you 
can influence the mainstream thought by engaging in the open debate.

> would greatly appreciate your inputs, both with regard to the mechanics 
> of doing it, and with helping to respond to some of the messages.  You 
> write well, and even though your perspective is a bit skewed from mine, 
> you are a valuable asset to the men's/fathers' movement and will move 
> this more than an inch forward.

I am active on many fronts.  I will probably participate less in this 
mailing list because I can get more accomplished in alt.child-support.
I have suggested means of altering the mechanics above.

> Thanks in advance for your prompt reply.
> Sincerely,
> 
> John Knight
> 
> On Wed, 7 Feb 1996, Rex Ballard wrote:
> 
> > Given the nature of the moderation on this newsgroup, you may want to 
> > consider addressing a more public and carefully observed forum, such as 
> > alt.feminism, alt.women, or alt.child-support.
> > 
> > Mailing lists are designed for relatively small circulations in the first 
> > place.  When you have many readers and many posters, it is much better to 
> > use a newsgroup.
> > 
> > It is true that you can't use CC:Mail to post to newsgroups.  You will 
> > probably have to get a personal telnet account.  I telnet to digex from 
> > my workstation after work and post from there.  Dial-up users using 
> > winvn, pegasus, or eudora can get very good service with minimal pain and 
> > effort.
> > 
> > When "censorship" takes hold, it also reduces the circulation.  People 
> > want to be able to observe and participate in conflict and resolution.  
> > News and Mail groups give one the sense that they can make a difference 
> > in the lives of a few hundred people.  Often, a well conducted 
> > conversation (I say something, someone responds with flames and 
> > objections, I ignore (and delete) the flames and respond constructively 
> > to the suggestions.  At the end of 4 or 5 exchanges of this sort, 
> > political analysts begin to study the evolving concensus for a potential 
> > plank or platform for their party or candidate.
> > 
> > 	Rex Ballard - Director of Electronic Distribution
> > 	http://cnj.digex.net/~rballard
> > 
> > 
> 

From rballard@cnj.digex.net Wed Feb 14 13:16:07 1996