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	Rex Ballard - Director of Electronic Distribution
	Standard & Poor's/McGraw-Hill
	Opinions expressed do not necessarily reflect
	the Management of the McGraw-Hill Companies.
	http://cnj.digex.net/~rballard


On 24 Feb 1996, Jeff Carty wrote:

>
> I'm into things like rationality and common sense; I'm also into things
> like success, happiness, moving forward on my goals and dreams, etc. :-)

What specific areas of your life would you like to work on.  Landmark is
oriented toward giving you training and coaching in accomplishing those
things which seem "impossible" because of beliefs and limitations which
are based on past experiences.  For example, if you speak to your boss and
he says "I don't want to hear this right now", you might decide that your
boss doesn't think you are important.  The Forum would help you dispel
some of the "Myths" and "Superstitions" which keep you from doing that
which you feel is worthy of your effort.

> Unfortunately, I'm the only one I know who does these things!  Lately
> I've been feeling a need to work on myself in a really concentrated way
> (like a weekend), WITH OTHER PEOPLE who are successful and upbeat and
> determined to cut through their own bullshit (and thus by example, help
> me to cut through mine).  In other words:  I want a stage or "forum"
> (pun unintended, but real) for producing breakthroughs for me in concert
> with others producing their own.

At Landmark, they call that "Coaching".  Starting from the introduction,
you have the opportunity to be coached in taking actions on your insights.
Many of the concepts of the Forum were familiar to me, but I didn't act on
that knowledge.  It's like knowing how to lose weight and still being 100
lbs overweight.  Without taking appropriate action, the knowledge is not
terribly useful.  It doesn't make much of a difference.

> Wouldn't you know, a few days after I started clearly realizing this, I
> started meeting some new people who all seem pretty good, intelligent
> and "happening", and who are all more or less upbeat about Landmark
> Forum.

> To be sure, to varying degrees they have mild reservations about it
> (e.g., the lingo-ism, the groupi-ness), but they say "I know how to use
> it for me, I set my own boundaries and make it work for me, it works
> great".  Well, I can do that. :-)  I can handle that.

Mostly, everyone who does the Forum participates at a certain level and
gets benefit consistant with their participation.  People who take the
coaching usually get more than those who sit back and watch.  They will go
over this in more detail in the Forum itself.

> So I went to a Forum introduction, and on the whole it does seem like
> something I can use well for me.  Forum graduates all had amazing
> stories to tell about how they just finally cut through their own
> bullshit and did their breakthroughs (which I want for me).  It seems
> like it can be a great catalyst and/or social support for that sort
> of thing!  I do, however, have some nagging little reservations:

The important thing at this point is that you saw an area in YOUR life
where you could have a breakthrough that you want.  You are left with the
choice of taking some simple appropriate actions, or continuing to have
live be as it is.  Either choice is valid, but it is your choice.

> 1) There was a fair amount of good-natured pressure to have me sign up
>    on impulse (in effect), that same night.  That's something I would
>    NEVER find at, say, a Vivation event (the additional trainings or
>    events are offered and made known, however NO time from the present
>    event is devoted to getting people to sign up right away, or even
>    sign up at all).  The Landmark people were reasonably smiling about
>    it, and backed off once I made it clear I was going to think it over
>    first, period; but still, the fact that so much of the evening's time
>    was devoted to this activity (hyping and getting people to sign up
>    NOW, on impulse) felt unworthy, disrespectful and, well, slimy to me.

First of all, many of the assistants in the introduction room are barely
trained to even speak to you.  I was one of those assistants at one time.
I made mistakes and even upset a few people with my enthusiasm and my
desire to have them register NOW!  The assistants may have known the
person who invited you, they know what a difference it would make in that
person's life if YOU did the Forum.  There is a little "bonus" to
registering that night.  If you do, you get access to some real power in
saying how your life will go.

Rarely did I encounter someone who just said "$290 that's cheap let me
write you a check, and my calender is clear that week-end".  More often,
I would encounter people who had concerns about time, money, trust, wanted
to think it over, and so on.  In almost every case, the consideration that
prevented them from registering that night also happened to be the
consideration that prevented them from accomplishing other things that
were important to them in their lives.

> 2) There was a lot of lip service to developing and maintaining personal
>    autonomy, yet the above is evidence of the opposite (I think), and
>    moreover, the Forum sales literature talks about Landmark being "the
>    source" or "providing your access to the source" of breakthroughs.
>    The Landmark speakers also used similar language.  It felt (or feels)
>    like kind of a contradiction to me.

The Forum consists of a series of distinctions, different ways of
distinguishing how we percieve and interact with the world.  Even when the
Forum begins, participants are asked to make promises to be on time, to
speak when called, to hold the microphone, and so on.  While these
requests are being made, the Forum Leader invites the participants to look
at how we relate to these requests and promises.  The next 3 days is a
series of such inquiries.  Each inquiry also includes requests to make
phone calls, to talk to someone you don't know, to take actions.  By about
6:00 PM Sunday night, you are clear about your choices in life.

The irony is that no one knows what each person will choose.  It is almost
always something consistant with their own goals, values, and sense of
honor.  What they see is the ability to live their lives consistant with
those values.

> 3) There were other little examples of hype and/or contradiction that
>    feel a little unworthy (and therefore like POSSIBLE bad signs) to me.
>    For example....People in the audience correctly pointed out that most
>    of the Forum techniques revealed to us that evening are age-old, or
>    Buddhist or Gestalt or whatever, and the evening leader freely
>    acknowledged that.  But then Landmark's literature says the Forum is
>    "based entirely on original theories and models of thinking".

Many original inventions are based on applications of age old principles
and concepts.  The airplane was a product of a princple known by sailors
since the Phonecians.  Until the late 1800's, man had tried to fly
unsuccessfully.  It was when Montgomery and the Wright Brothers began to
apply the Bournulli theory to the design of wings, that we were able to
fly.

Traditional concepts and principles have often taken years to master and
apply.  When I did the Forum, I had spent 25 years in spiritual
disciplines including Christianity, Judaism, 12 Steps, and programs such
as Carnagie and "Tony Robbins".  Much of what I knew, and what I believed,
actually prevented me from accomplishing important goals, from living up
to my own expectations of myself.  I was so addicted to being right and
knowing the "Truth" that I couldn't see new possibilities easily.

The structure of the Forum was such that I could effectively review my
current knowledge base from a new perspective, dispell some of the myths
that I believed to be true, and get into action on new insights.

>    A lot
>    of little things like that.  Little examples of "hype" and
>    contradiction which (I'm worried) amount to subtle programming for
>    me to become a Forum-head, sign up on impulse and generally just get
>    swept up uncritically in the whole Landmark scene.

People participate in the Forum at various levels.  Some don't even bother
to complete the free 12 week seminar included with the tuition.  Others
complete the "Cirriculum for Living" and become leaders in their
community, business, or industry.  Still others enter the leadership
programs and take on leadership roles at Landmark which trains them for
leadership roles as Management Consultants.  Still others take on the
coaching and training required to be part-time or full-time employees of
Landmark.  Some just volunteer as "assistants" and train themselves in
accomplishment, communicaton, and relationships.

People's level of participation is determined by their current level of
participation, their desire for even further breakthroughs, and their
ability to see new horizons as they achieve their goals.  I almost dropped
out twice, because I had gotten everything I wanted and didn't know what
to do next.  After a short sabatical, I came back, eager for more.

> What my gut is telling me right now is:  There's good stuff here (a lot
> of collected and re-packaged good self-examination techniques)....The
> hype is a goodness in that Landmark is able to collect large numbers of
> eager, growth-oriented people (what I am looking for)....I should do
> it, I just need to be careful.  Watch out for the hype and programming,
> just do one course, "take what I like and leave the rest", etc.

In the Forum, you will be invited to "Try it on for 5 days" (Friday to
Tuesday night), and what doesn't fit, don't keep.  Several times throught
the course, they will remind you that none of this is "True" (like some
absolute truth you must believe).  There is even a point where you will be
so convince that it is true - and that it stinks, that you might get
angry, just before they tell you (in effect) that you can make up your own
story.

> Comments/experiences, anybody?

Just by going to the introduction, you got something of value.  You
were actually exposed to about 10 of the 50 distinctions of the Forum.
They sort of "machine gunned" them.  They talked about Listening through a
filter, about listening from a commitment, about learning through the
inquiry, about paradigm shifts, about distinguishing "What Happened" from
your "Interpretation" and how the two can be collapsed into a
self perpetuating circle.

My brother went to an intro, saw that he had always considered himself
stupid compared to his "genious brother", and that he had lived his whole
life out of being "cute and stupid".  When he realized that this wasn't
even a valid comparison, he saw that he was quite smart.  He had taught
himself to program computers for the Military, he had build and programmed
his own computer, and he had taught himself auto-mechanics.  He went out
the next day and registered for college to get is B.S. in Computer
Science.  He is now in his second year, and working his way through
college as a mechanic.

> (Note:  I am looking for personal experience, NOT debate or attack.  I
> notice a lot of nut cases in this newsgroup having Landmark arguments,
> pro or con.  I'm not looking for that.  In particular, MemeGenius and
> Caligara, would you both please just stay out of this one.)  Thanks,

Landmark has a program to train people who want to represent Landmark to
the general public.  It takes 6 months to complete the "Basics" course,
and you must demonstrate effectiveness in your personal and professional
life as well as prove your ability to effectively relate to guests under
the supervision of someone who has been certified to lead introductions.

I suppose the best testimony in favor of landmark is that in spite of the
hype, negative feedback by people who have been "hammered" to sign up, and
poorly trained volunteers, over 3 million satisfied customers have done
the Forum.  In addition, there are a significant number of graduates who
come back to work as much as 20 hours/week as volunteer assistants.  AND
there are a substantial number who complete their participation as
satisfied customers and get on with whatever it is they are committed to.

You will probably get a phone call from one of those "irritating little
assistants", asking you if you are ready to sign up now.  You can handle
it one of several ways.  You can say "No I don't wish to sign up now and
I'll call you if I change my mind" (at which point they should tear up
your card and never call you again if they are following Landmark
Policies),  You can say "Yes, I'd like to sign up know, can I pay by
credit card?" at which point they can take your registration over the
phone.  You could also say "Yes, I'd like to sign up, but I have some
concerns" at which point the enrollment assistant will try to address your
concerns and have you in a place where you can give an unqualified yes or
no by the end of the phone call (a promise to call the center by a certain
date is acceptable as a yes).

Finally, you can ask to speak to the enrollment manager or the Center
manager.  These are the actual people who are responsible for how you are
treated.  If an assistant is upsetting you, these people want to know,
they can either remove the irritating assistant from the program or give
him/her more closely supervised coaching (I actually had the enrollment
manager sitting across from me for 3 hours until I could effectively deal
with guests without getting them upset).

> Jeff

Anyone who has a grievance with Landmark, it's assistants, or it's staff
should call the local center to resolve it.  Landmark has placed a high
priority on making sure that the customer (guests) have been served and
are happy with their participation with Landmark.

	Rex Ballard.



From rballard@cnj.digex.net Sat Apr  6 22:48:19 1996
Newsgroups: alt.self-improve,alt.fan.landmark