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On Tue, 22 Nov 1994, Alan Yasutovich wrote:

> > Yes, Church of Christ is one of those fundamentalist churches.  But you
> > can begin to see that when you compare what the gangs provide (Average 120
> > hours/week support and negative supervision) and compare it with what the
> > church provides (Average 4 hours/week).  Is it so surprising that the gang
> > members outnumber the church boys in the inner city? 
> 
> 	Now let me point to a VERY specific point.  It's "The
> 	*BOSTON* church of Christ".  They are "worldwide" or sorts.
> 	But not to be confused with the "church of Christ".  They
> 	are almost a cult in the way they try to emphasize disipleship,
> 	prayer partners, spirituual partners, etc. etc.  I've seen
> 	*THEM* damage some people who I know personally and some
> 	very good people who live a couple of doors down from us
> 	who took all their crap seriously and haven't been to ANY
> 	church since they were hurt so bad.

Usually it's a combination of the carrot and the stick.  They get you into
the church and participating by appealing to vanity, pride, gluttony, and
envy (you can be a "winner" too, just like us), if you break your
commitments, or stop participating, they come after you.  One way out is
to actively engage in dialogue which indirectly challenges the "Pharasee
factor".  Then they quickly excommunicate you. 

Funny isn't it?  The gangs use exactly the same tactics.  The also appeal 
to lust, greed, and sloth.  The difference is that the gangs deliver what 
they promise.  Those kinds of churches never seem to let you get the carrot.

> 	With these people you are LUCKY if you wind up with an
> 	evening off a week.  And that only because somewhere it's
> 	biblical to have "family time".  Yea, they'd do it.  And
> 	if they/you didn't then people would be on the phone asking
> 	where you are/

I've had similar experiences with a Church of Christ in Denver, and 
Assembly of God in Denver, the Mormons in Rochester, and an Assembly of 
God in Kingston N.Y.  each wanted 10% of my Gross income, plus 2 to 4% 
for special drives, plus 40 hours/week.  The Mormans had every single 
night structured, including Monday (Family Home Evening).  When I moved, 
I just never returned the Bishop's phone calls. :-).

> 	Also, 4 hours per week?  Well maybe my perspective is a bit
> 	skewed being at the end of adding on an addition to the church.
> 	Tuesday nights and Sat mornings.  Also, softball on Friday
> 	nights in the summer.
> 
> 	"Normally" it would be Sunday morning, right?

Yeah, actually I was only thinking of Sunday Morning.  I forgot that I 
usually had one other night of youth activity (Junior Choir or Youth 
Group) on Wednesday or Thursday night.  Of course, Friday and Saturday 
night I was left with the choice of staying home and watching reruns and 
prime-time rejects or going to the drive-in with friends and getting 
intoxicated.  My parents were at church 5 nights/week plus sundays.  The 
kids were at church 2 days/week.

> > this mess in the first place.  On the other hand, we need to provide an 
> > alternative support system for children who don't have the benefit of two 
> > (or even one) commited parents willing to take the time and resources 
> > required to keep the kids motivated in a positive way.
> 
> 	Well therein do you state the antithesis of the problem.
> 
> 	Divorce.
	BINGO!!!
 
> 	The collapse of the authority stucture.  It's a parallel
> 	concept to what we're talking about here. Just a different
> 	name.  That motivation dissapears with divorce.

And now we come full circle!  What causes divorce? There may be several 
factors, like, we don't burn unfaithful wives at the stake anymore, we 
don't send philandering men to the front lines of a 1000 year long war.  
We're more civilized now.  We move the single mothers into neighborhoods 
where they are easy prey to drug dealers, pimps, and "play for pay 
boyfriends".  We let the father become a part-time slave, he only has to 
turn over 2/3 of his income to stay out of jail.  Actually, he gets 1/4 
after taxes, FICA, insurances, and child support are deducted.  His 
employer just doesn't tax the 7% FICA he pays.

The current support, alimony, and entitlement system is designed to 
destroy the institution of matrimony.  Marriage is delayed for 10 to 20 
years after puberty, during which singles are encouraged to develop 
incredible sexual/romantic fantasies of "superman" and "wonder woman" 
mates which no human could meet.  They are even encouraged to date, 
fornicate, and socialize in such a way as to add credibility to the 
myth.  In fact, the "Ideals" are the least responsible factions of 
society.  The biker and the slut are the idealized fantasy models.  The 
cause of this is a censorship structure which says only biker/bad-boys 
have great sex and only slut/whore/bad-girls give good sex.  Who cares if 
he robbed a grandfather to put gas in the stolen car!  Who cares if she 
shoplifted the slinky dress that doubles as a t-shirt?  You don't have to 
LIVE with them, you only have to MAKE LOVE (strange term?!?) with them.

When you finally do get married after 10-20 years of this fantasy life, 
you discover that she is a slob and he is a drunken bum.  She can't even 
clean the dishes.  He get's drunk and beats her up (no particular reason, 
but he's used to winning by fighting).  Just about the time they figure 
out that this might not have been what they had bargained for, Miss 
Sticky Fingers is LATE!  Ten days later, the little stick is blue.

When Junior arrives, our models of responsiblity, with no training in 
relationships, no practical training or experience in nursery skills, and 
no resources they can trust, proceed to attempt to be responsible.  He 
finds a hard-laber high-risk job that barely pays the rent, mom submits 
herself to a regimine of sleep deprevation similar to that used in Korean 
Brain Washing.  Within six months, mom is bipolar and schizophrenic.  
Dad, who thought marriage was all about getting paid and getting laid, 
finds that he is competing with is kid for Mom's attention.

What happens next is wierd and sick.  Papa/Hubby begins to get jealous 
of the kids and wants to get even with his wife for the "blue balls". The 
acting out is triggered by intoxication (alchohol, drugs,...).  He starts 
getting violent at home.  He avoids the home, works late, and eventually 
finds other "comforts" in arcades and rent-a-girls.  Soon the combination 
of the high risk job and the inoxication result in a disibility injury.  

Now, papa can't work (and pay for sex), he still has "sybill" in the 
bedroom, and a baby he has grown to hate.  It becomes a toss-up which he 
will do when he gets intoxicated to the point of black-out.  He will 
either beat the kid and rape his wife, or beat his wife and molest the kid.

REAL QUICK!  Mom gets out and takes the kids with her.  She finds a 
church or battered women's shelter who now "Cure the Symptoms".  The get 
her on assistance (welfare), they help her get a divorce, they get a 
restraining order and supervised visitation order.  Papa can see his kids 
for 15 minutes after an hour of "Grilling" by a carefully trained "Social 
Services Worker" who can make him which castration were legal.

When papa misses his payment, the get a court order to carnish wages and
disibility income.  Who gets the money?  NOT MOM!  The money is paid to
the court, who turns it over to social services.  Social Services gives
Mom the equivalent of welfare, sometimes as little as 20% of the actual
support payment.  The mother forfeits her right to child support when she
accepts her first welfare payment.  Often they don't even tell the mother
how much they are getting. 

Mom is now totally dependent on welfare, with no way to get off.  Mom 
usually ends up turning tricks to cover medical and transportation.  Dad is 
now force to work "off the books" for half what he would make as a W-4 or 
1099 employee.  You can build a house for half the normal price just by 
hiring "dead beat dads" and paying them pure cash.

Isn't it great.  The Democrats created a system which essentially 
promotes tax subsidized -  prostitution, racketeering, and drug abuse, to 
be paid for by an ever dwindling upper middle class.  The young newlyweds 
from above WERE the lower middle class.  Notice they are no longer 
working "legitimate jobs"?

The example above is not autobiographical at all.  It does reflect what I
have observed in about 6000 divorced middle-class people.  It is more of a
composite picture, there is a common theme though.  You and I both know
they have lots of alternatives at every major juncture, but THEY see
themselves as innocent victims at every step of the way. 

> 	I keep on saying, no matter what people "legislate" (as we
> 	say) about visitation, kids having both parents, etc., that
> 	it's who you live with that is your family. Not who you visit.

Kind of ironic isn't it.  The current divorce laws are designed to make 
it as difficult and costly as possible to provide a second chance at a 
two parent family.  The first marriage could have been base on fraud, 
deception, blackmail, extortion, kidnapping, and rape.  It doesn't 
matter, the law will punish both parents in the interest of the children.

> 	It's a fact of life.  A fact that is not addressed by divorce
> 	situations and never will.  Because it's impossible.

I think we agree on this 100%.  I gave up the notion of being a "daddy" 
to my kids.  It only gave them justification for insubordination of their 
step-father.  I pay their child-support and tell them to love their 
"Daddy Jerry".  But don't think for a minute that it's easy.  I only do 
it because my kids lives are at stake.

> 	Divorce is wrong.  And things are wrong for very good reasons.
> 	Because things won't and can't work the way they are supposed to
> 	when they are outside of the ways that God has prescribed.

God designed Women to mate shortly after their first menses.  God 
designed Men to mate shortly after their voices changed.  The raging 
hormones of puberty were intended to cause life-long bonding while the 
parents still had the opportunity to contribute and make a difference.  
We have created a culture which perverts that design through terror, 
guilt, and shame.  It takes an incredibly powerful force to thwart a 
design that goes back to Adam.  Whether that's 10,000 or 1,000,000 years, 
it's incridible to think we could alter that design in 200 years.

> 	It's a 2 way street.  God prescribes things because they are
> 	right (logically) and they are right because God prescribes them.

In Colorado, they've built dams that have turned a barrent desert into 
one of the largest major cities in the U.S. (Denver).  Maybe we can 
emotionally "dam up the hormones" if necessary.  At minimum we should be 
responsible.  We should let kids know that they ARE going to go through 
fantasies about their future bride.  As soon as a young person begins to 
seriously want intimacy with the opposite sex, the burning questions 
become "What will SHE be like?" and "How will I meet HER?".  She wants to 
know about HIM.  It is at this point in their lives when kids most 
desparately want/need God in their lives.  It is at this point that the 
church tells them "Don't even think about it for another 20 years".  Is 
it any wonder the church receives less than a generous reception by the 
16 to 18 year old population?

You said your daughter was 14?  How much longer can you keep her hormones 
in check with Love?  What's next, ignorance? shame? guilt? terror?  Most 
of these have been tried (remember the VD scare movies of the 1950's?).  
Today we have a lethal virus and even that loses it's power by time a kid 
is 15 or 16 years old.

If ever there were a time to bring back arranged marriages and parentally
sponsored marriages, and the extended family, this is the time.  These may
be the ONLY families to survive the AIDS epedimic that will kill most
children born after 1980 by 2010.  The HIV infection will spread from 1995
to 2002 almost unfettered.  The HIV will become AIDS 10 years later. 
Older boys will pass it to younger girls who will pass it on to younger
boys.  Most boys will get it from prostitutes, who are not regulated or
monitored for HIV status or contacts.  My son is now 11.  My daughter is 
now 8.  Can you guess what their chances will be?


> 	Well that is what I tell my wife.  When you feel like you're
> 	not doing anything, life often provides you with something.
> 	Her mother lives with a guy accross the street. I guess they
> 	are not married because her husband refuses to sign divorce
> 	papers for the last 5+ years.  So it's a legal clalmity.

It's real common.  If they are legally divorced, DYFSS can go after him 
with fangs bared.  Since he's still legally married, he can always 
threaten to reconcile.  He can't get married either.  If he gets 
divorced, he wont be a able to afford to get married.

> 	I guess the guy visits.  But he's as deadbeat as they get.
> 	An adult (30's?).  No job. No car.  No license.  His mother
> 	DRIVES him to pick them up.

Ask this woman what she found so attractive about him in the first 
place?  Want to bet she was trying to marry a carfully cultivated 
fantasy? Mr. Useless could never measure up.  Number two won't either, 
but then since their "not really married", they have to maintain the 
illusions to maintain the relationship.

> 	We are hoping that we are making a good long term difference.
> 	Also, the guy, (not really through his fault) has been unemployed
> 	a lot.  So the mother works ar Filenes or something, and he
> 	gets whatever.  5 kids live over there.  2 are his.  So they
> 	don't have a lot.  I guess her shoes were wearing out (just
> 	heard this a couple of days ago).  Kids were making fun of her
> 	at school.  holes through the bottom.  Since last spring.
> 	I never noticed.  My wife found a pair and gave them to her.
> 	2 sizes larger.  "they fit perfectly".

You may not be stopping the gangs in the streets, but you are taking 
away the breeding ground for gangs in those 5 girls.  Later you claim 
that you don't make a difference, but you DO.
> 
> 
> 	I happen to be in the enviable position that I don't think
> 	about money anymore.  We're not rich.  But Christmas is not
> 	a concern, like how are we going to finance it.  And my wife
> 	is at home with the kids.  But this is all by design.  Long
> 	ago we fashoined our life and finances so that my wife could
> 	raise and love whatever kids we had.  For this very reason.
> 	This love and supervision is the exact thing that kids
> 	want and need.  These neighbor kids come over every day
> 	after school for "tea time" (cookies) and tell my wife
> 	about their day.  Their problems.  Etc.

We maintained that commitment even after the divorce.  I provide the 
financial support she and her husband provide full-time supervision and 
coaching for the kids every day.  She's on disability (dislocated 
shoulder), and he's on disability (Multiple Sclerosis).  I provide extra 
so that they can finish college and pay off their loans in time to put the 
kids through college.  I didn't find out about the MS until very recently.

> 	Someone who cares.  And is there.  That's all people want
> 	and need.
> 
> 	My job is to finance it.
 
It's a big job isn't it.  I supported 1 man, 3 women, 5 children, and put 
the adults through training (GED, Business School,...) to get on their 
feet.  Eventually I lost 2 of the women to men who felt they could do 
better (they flaked out within 2 months), and my ex-wife married the guy 
with MS.  Now I live in 2 rented rooms.  Leslie lives in a 3 bedroom house.
 
> > Remember when your kids were scared of the lighning and wanted to sleep 
> > with you?  What happens when kids are scared by the gunfire and have no 
> > one to sleep with and feel safe with?
> 
> 	Good question.  My daughter came down the other night from
> 	a bad dream about a fire. And I sometimes wonder about the
> 	(false) sense of security I teach them.  We could live in
> 	Korea and wonder when the military police were coming to
> 	rape the women and kill the men.

In South Bronx, the Crips come and rape the women and kill the men.  Just 
because they don't wear what you recognize as a uniform, doesn't mean 
they aren't exactly like the military police in Korea. 
 
> > There are places where kids can do that.  But for every kid who makes it 
> > to the youth centers, there are five more running in the gangs.  Guess 
> > which ones will have the most children?
> 
> 	So the old saying is true?  ( I forget it exactly)
> 	The vermine will multiply?

What's the solution?  Kemp, Dole, and Gingrich have come just short of 
suggesting concentration camps.  I just received a paper "Picking at 
Scabs" that reflects this.  These aren't mice, they are human beings, 
capable of killing, raping, or recruiting our daughters and my son.

> 	Remember, (metephorically)  "the poor will always be with you".

Cesear gave them bread and circuses.  Today we give them entitlements, 
cocain, and television.  The media can simulate acts as grizzly as the 
wolves eating the Christian Children.  In fact, it only gets an "R" 
rating.  Two married people having intercourse with each other is rated X.

> > actually pay about $100/week/child for total day-care costs including 
> > summer activities programs.  If the kids didn't have two parents, the 
> > costs would be about double.  They go to school with kids who DON'T get 
> > that supervision.  I can only hope that they won't offer him something we 
> > aren't providing.
 
> 	Well I think that it's wrong for parents to feel forced to
> 	pay for "structured activities" just to drive them into the
> 	poor house.  That option should be esentially free.

Oh, when they get to High School, they will probably get $500/week each 
equivalent if they are on the Football Team, Cheerleading Squad, or the 
Marching Band.  Only 10% of my school budget goes to classrooms, the rest 
is administration and extracirricular activities for 10% of the student 
population.  Ross Perot cut the Texas school budget 80% by making the 
varsity sports, music, theater, and co-op programs be self supporting.  
Not only did these programs survive, they thrived.

> > Unfortunately, while you might not want to play with them, they WILL want
> > to play with you.  They will be trying to enlist your son and daughter,
> > they will be "borrowing" your car, they will be draining your wallet in
> > the form of taxes and insurance for AFDC, Law Enforcement, Insurance
> > Claims, and other "Entitlements".  Your tax dollars subsidize the drug
> > lords.  Your tax dollars subsidize the gangs.  Your insurance premiums are
> > largely influenced by uninsured motorists, intoxicated drivers, and car
> > theives.  Your health insurance premiums are influenced by drug abuse,
> > drug rehabilitation, and drug induced emotional/mental disorders. 
 
> 	Well that is a commentary on society at large.  The same 
> 	society that men in real trouble with CS figure it's better
> 	taking part in than removing themselves from and living in 
> 	the woods.

They don't have to live in the woods.  They hurt themselves and collect 
workman's comp then disability.  While they are on the dole (therefor 
exempt from child support) they work "off the books" for drugs, cash, and 
barter. 
 
> > When you ignore the problem, it doesn't go away.  In fact, since middle
> > class families postpone pregnancy and limit family size to the number of
> > children they can support, the poor are also outbreeding the middle class
> > about 3 to 1. 
> 
> 	Everything in life balances itself out and cycles through.
> 	Just like the economy.  Pretty soon there will be so many
> 	people that, just by laws of averages, some will leak into
> 	the middle class.  Supply and demand.  You know, even if
> 	those people live by entitilements, when they are spending
> 	our money, SOMEONE has to product the stuff they buy with
> 	our money.  Why not let them make it?

Remember bread and circuses?  Rome quickly collapsed to the point where 
the empire was ruled from constantinople.  Will we move Wall Street amd 
Madison Avenue to Demver or Phoenix?  What these people spend their money 
on is DRUGS.  That money goes to South America and gets mixed with the 
inflationary currency.  Cocaine may be a $500 Billion industry.

> 	Then they'll have jobs (the jobs will get created by demand)
> 	and they will move into middle class.

I have a few dozen friends who say they want jobs.  The're schisophrenic, 
paranoid, violent, abusive, and sociopathic.  They also have back 
injuries and carpel tunnel syndrome, along with Lyme and Chronic 
Fatigue.  How many would you like? :-)
 
> 	Why, in part, did this happen? In the mid 80's people were so
> 	spend crazy that they eventually bought all their toys, cars,
> 	etc.  Well, a car lasts 5-10 years.  Now what?  Ahhhhhh.
> 	People finally are forced to buy new ones.  And in a wave.

Theleading edge baby boomers have already put their "bust generation" 
through school.  They are selling their houses and taking "early 
retirement".  Have you had your house appraised lately?  The bond market 
is already getting a bit nutty.

Actually, I think there's a real opportunity through the internet for 
cottage industries.  I wouldn't be surprised to see brokers for 
everything from rental apartments to relationships and marriages.  We do 
need to keep exporting something.  Food (processed preferably) would be a 
big industry.

> 	This is just one example.

> > religeon or hard-core 12 step work.  Notice, religeon IS effective, for 
> > those who don't already have a negative history with religeon.
> 
> 	Well I agree that treatment programs, doctors, and government
> 	help is complete horseshit.

We agree here!

> 	And yes, I also agree that one of Satan's greatest weapons
> 	against God and the church is that "bad experience".  Most of
Interesting isn't it.  Christ warned us about Pharasees in over 200 
references.  They were the only group he openly condemned.  He ate and 
slept with tax collectors (Like the local Mafia in those days).  Who is 
the first major leader in the Christian Church - Paul a Pharsee.  What 
are the most frequently cited passages on marriage?  The one's preceded 
by "This is my personal opinion (for whatever the opinion of a Pharasee is 
worth), I don't see why you would want to be married in the first place, 
but, If your Hormones are raging..."

> 	the skeptical people I talk to aren't "died in the wool"
> 	atheists.  You talk to them about God and they (effectively
> 	changing the subject) start talking about the church, the
> 	priest, the minister, how the pope has more $$ than God.

I draw three distinctions.  There is God, Jesus Christ, and the 
Organization of Religion.  If I concede that there is a God, there are 
Christians and Moslims who will demand that I adopt their concept of 
God.  Pagans, Universalist Unitarians, an other "Earth Faiths" are one 
notch below child molesters in the eyes of the fundamentalist.

If I concede that Jesus Christ is "the son of God" (Knowing the Hebrew 
concepts behind this phrase"), I would then be expected to subscribe to 
the writings of Apollonius of Tiersius (Saint Paul).  If I concede that 
at some points, Paul may have been devinely inspired, I am then expected 
to surrender the distinctions between the "Personal opinions of a 
Pharasee" and the divine inspirations of God.

If I am willing to accept the entire Gospel and Epistles, and even the 
entire Old and New Testament as the Word of God in it's entirity, I am 
then confronted with the delemma of a church that believes it is 
acceptable to Kill (A violation of the Two Great Commandments, one of the 
Ten Commandments, and several Kosher laws) but a breach in Kosher Law 
(Leviticus) is an unforgivable crime - Even though Christ declared that 
there is no unclean thing you can put in your mouth.  It's what comes out 
that counts.

The Church, as it exists within fundamentalist religeon, suffers from a 
lack of integrity.

> 	All irrelevant things.  I have had bad church experiences.
> 	But that does not chance the existence of God, or the nature
> 	of his relationship to me and all men.

It should leave you more in the inquiry of integrity.  You find yourself 
looking at the Hebrew concepts contained within a Bible translated 
without those concepts, and find a conflict between a God that DOES 
exist, and a culture, claiming to be obedient servants of that God, yet 
maintaining an agenda that is inconsistant with the prior expression of 
that God through is Son.

> 	Hero worship instead of God.  A hero is just a man.

Some heros are heros because of their obedience to God.
 
> 	And you will often hear about people and testimonies of people
> 	who "made it up from the trenches" who then go out and save
> 	the kids, the gangs, the world.  It often seems as though
> 	people aren't willing to listen to someone who hasn't, "walked
> 	a mile in their shoes".  It's a funny thing.

I often wonder how Christ did it.  Christ didn't go to town and ask to 
stay with the local preacher (Pharasee), he asked to stay with the local 
Pimp, Pusher, and GodFather (Tax Collector).  The tax collectors were 
responsible for providing Money, Food, Women, and entertainment for the 
Roman Soldiers.  If you didn't pay your taxes, the tax collector took 
your daughter to entertain the soldiers.  If she didn't please them, the 
tax collector took her sister or cousin.  This was who Jesus sought out.  
The amazing thing is that these guys said YES!  By the end of the night, 
everyone, including soldiers, harlots (tax slaves), and the Godfather 
himself repented and were forgiven.  That is one N.A. meeting I would 
like to attend.

> 	You see movie about it occasionally.  The "ring leader" who
> 	turns around.  And all the underlings turn around, too.
Nikki Cruz comes to mind (Cross and the Switchblade).  He was a winner.  
Others saw him as a winner.  They saw that through Christ, they could be 
winners too.  They were saved, THEN they went through heroin withdrawals 
cold turkey.  Christians stayed in that room until the shaking was over.  
What mattered was not that he was in the gutter, or for how long, or how 
deep, but rather that he got out of the gutter, and could help others out 
of the gutter too.  Nikki Cruz never HAD to go back to the gutter.  He 
did it out of gratitude for his own salvation.

In matters not that I know the way out of hell, or the way into heaven.  
Only that I can lead you from hell to heaven.

> 	Even if it's only in their own mind.  And it is.  Because we
> 	are all just people.  Some have just been luckier than others
> 	or made better choices.

I don't believe in luck anymore.  I believe that coincidence is God 
working a miracle anonymously.  Sometimes when I think my "God Luck" is 
really bad, that is when God is giving me my best training.  I do want to 
get the lesson over as soon as possible though.

> > As I mentioned before, there are already more of THEM than there are of 
> > US.  Unless we take aways their voting rights, they will soon be solving 
> > OUR problem of "selfishness" the way they did in Germany, Russia, and China.

> 	Not sure I understand this.

Hitler executed priests and nuns too.  Especially people like BonHoffer 
who didn't agree with Hitler's habit of killing innocent people.

> > Good point!  More often, the parents were disciplinarian terrorists, 
> > resorting mostly to the rod (or fists or electrical cord) and rarely to 
> > the hug.  These parents set boundries which constantly shifted and 
> > tightened.  In a poverty home, even speaking can be a corporal crime.
 
> 	Boy, it's scarey.  Yea, I've hit my kids.  I've hit my
> 	daughter because she needed it. She doesn't any more.
> 	My 20 month old doesn't need it.  (NEED is a very hard thing
> 	to define.)  But on occasion I feel causious about brusing
> 	their ego or personality.  I've learned that positive pulling
> 	works better than negative pushing.

I don't experience you as the type who would drink to a black-out.  It is 
in the black-out that impulses which would normally be managed by a 
responsible concious mind are acted out.  Those impulses can include 
anything from slapping your wife to killing your kids.  I've known 3 men 
who eventually killed their wives and children in a black-out.
 
> > When Purity reacts to your reccomendation for discipline, she can't 
> > imagine a parent who says "If you hit your sister, I will spank you" and 
> > actually follows those rules.  In Purity's world, such a contract would 
> > be followed by a beating because she spoke to her sister.  Her parent had 
> > had two more drinks by then and just wanted to hit someone since she 
> > couldn't hit the real perpetrator.
> 
> 	That's the hard thing for me to understand.  Kids are so
> 	cute.  Even when they're bad.  And they are really all we have.
Sometimes I think they only survive by being so cute.  To an angry man 
with raging instincts, intoxicated to the point of black-out, cute isn't 
enough.

> 	The only REAL thing that God and life give to us.  Jobs,
> 	money, friends, houses, whatever, are all just shadows.

Pure Gold!!  How much it hurts to not have my kids.  I think of them, an 
their mother, every week when I get my paycheck.  The support is paid the 
same day.

> 	Yea, well as they say, "you fell in with the wrong crowd".
I was pushed.  I needed something the church wasn't willing to provide.

> 	Saying that in this context sort of adds dimension to that
> 	cliche'.  Again, I always had a practical viewpoint of where
> 	I was and what I was doing.  Keeping a job, staying clean,
> 	staying fed, always was more of a priority.  Not from
> 	selfishness.  But from necessity.  Nobody else was going to
> 	do it.  Not those "friends".  So why should I compromise my 
> 	basic standard of living based on that?

I described above how you can get a free ride!  I think you have a higher 
level of integrity than that.
 
> 	You are right.  But 2 things from before.
> 	1) They don't consinder your pain meaningfull unless you have
> 	scars just as deep.
What really matters is that you are willing to share how it felt (Terror, 
bewilderment, frustration, dispair), and that you are willing to share 
how you beat it, that they can beat it too (With God, I'm Happy, Joyous 
and Free.  I insist on enjoying life, God gave me what was beyond my 
wildest dreams...).
 
> 	2) You have to sort of be living it to relate to them. Or
> 	actually to be found in that company.  I promise you that I
> 	will not be wandering the streets tonight where these gangs
> 	hang out.  Not tonight.  Not next month.  Not in bars. I drink
> 	at home.  With my family there in my house.

It's thanksgiving.  I will probably be in New Brunswick, Trenton, or 
Philly, sharing experience strength and hope.  The man who made the 
difference for me hustled men, giving them sex for money or drugs.  He 
was driving a new car at the time.  I didn't find out until 4 years later 
that he was a new car salesmen.  I give back what he gave so freely.
 
	Rex Ballard


From rballard@cnj.digex.net Mon Oct  3 14:16:57 1994