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On Mon, 3 Oct 1994, Kristal Ann Roberts wrote:

> rex:  thanx for your reply. your current age doesn't matter as long as 
> you remember the years between 12 and 18.:)
I'm 38 now, but I don't think I'm senile yet :-).
> first off, let me assure you that this is confidential.  your name or any 
> other distinguishing info will not be revealed.  
I'm very out now, so it is less of a concern that it used to be.

> now about tg-ism in adolescence:  tell me the story of your teenage years 
> - were you out?; who knew?; what types of challenges did you face?; when 
> did you know?; etc.  the basics are fine.  when i have specific 
> questions, i will ask.  
First of all, I have been tg since I was at least 18 months old.  I 
actually have memories of playing with girls and not wanting to play with 
a boy while I was living in an apartment (I moved out of that apartment 
when I was 19 months old).  Until I was 6, nobody particularly encouraged 
or discouraged my activities.  My mother didn't want me to play with 
guns, and I didn't like to fight, hit, or play violent games.  I also had 
asthma when I was a kid.

When I was six years old, I was playing "Barbies" with my girl-friends 
and we started trading clothes.  It wasn't the first time I'd ever 
dressed, but this time, when her mother walked in and saw me in her 
daughter's dress, she told me I was a boy, I couldn't wear dresses, play 
with dolls, or play with girls.  In that one day, I lost all my friends.

I still played with girls whenever I could, and I became an 
intellectual.  I spent many hours reading the entire nonfiction section 
of the Denver Public Library (several branches).

My parents caught me dressed once and told me I would grow out of it.  
For me, dressing up made me feel good about myself.  I felt loved, 
attractive, sexy, happy, powerful.  I also felt shame and guilt for not 
accepting the gender God had cursed me with.  I often prayed that he 
would change me into a girl.

In grade school, they called me a sissy, made fun of me, and often beat 
me up physically.  In one case, they held my feet 4 feet in the air and 
tried to get me to let go of a tree branch.  When I dropped, something 
happened and I couldn't breathe.  My back hurt, and I couldn't move.  The 
boys left me there, suffocating.  Eventually I started breathing again 
and in about 20 minutes I was able to stand up.  It is a flashback that 
comes back anytime someone attempts to force me into gender conformity.

I remember that when I was about 11 years old (summer of 1966) the movie 
about Christine Jorgensen had just come out.  I wanted to see the movie, 
I wanted to know more about the operation, I wanted to see if it was 
possibile for me to become a woman too.  I talked to a psychologist I had 
been seeing about it.  He said he knew I was feminine, but that I was 
still not feminine enough to merit a sex change.  I didn't understand any 
of it.  I didn't know that most men weren't born with their testicles in 
their scrotum (mine were still inside, like overies).

I liked to dress-up privately and I actually started to enjoy dressing up as 
androgynously as possible.  I would wear quiana shirts, thin tight pants, 
and boots or shoes with the pants on the inside.  When I was about to 
start junior high, I let someone know that I was wearing a black teddy 
under my boy clothes.  They didn't understand tg/cd... so they just 
assumed that I was homosexual.

In Junior high (age 11-15), I was well known as a sissy.  I asked a girl 
to Dance and she put on a good show for about 50 of her friends by 
throwing a soft drink in my face.  In gym class, my legs, already very 
shapely from wearing heels (I fit my mom's shoes at the time) seemed to 
get a great deal of attention.  The boys would whip me with towels, often 
leaving welts and bruises.  Often, the gym teacher would just stand there 
and watch.  This was the height of the Vietnam War and the goal of the 
athletic program was to prepare young men for boot camp when they turned 
18.  Sissies were prime targets for dehumanization.

Many young men started coming on to me thinking I was gay.  After about 5 
of these invitations (some of which were more like rape attempts), I 
started introducing them to each other.  By high school, I was the social 
director and matchmaker for the gay community in my high school.

When my voice changed, and I realized that my "manhood" was becoming an 
irreversible reality, I became very self-destructive.  I went joy-riding 
with some of the boys in my church youth group.  We started using drugs 
and getting drunk.  I was arrested once but the charges were dropped.  
The police didn't know what to do with me.  They knew I was a virgin, and 
they couldn't even put me in a holding cell.  I sat at an officer's desk 
for 6 hours and drew schematics while the police tried to wake up my parents.

Since everybody "Knew" that I was gay, my romance life took place off 
campus.  I was in the all-city choir (as a Bass yet :-() and met some 
inner city kids who seemed to recognize that I was not gay.  I got 
involved with one of the girls.  That summer, when she realized that I 
wasn't going to have intercourse with her (I made love like a lesbian), 
she started sharing me with her friends.  I never told any of them that I 
was a gender-bender, or about my dressing, but they seemed to 
understand.  They liked that I was willing to satisfy them and didn't 
want them to reciprocate.  When their boyfriends realized that I had been 
giving all of their girlfriends great orgasms, they suddenly became very 
jealous and posessive.

Just before I was supposed to start driving, I was diagnosed with 
Epilepsy (a side effect of detoxification from adventures 48 hours prior 
to the EEG).  This gender-bender, sissy and closet dresser couldn't 
drive.  I would go to parties, drink/drug myself into a blackout and come 
out of the blackout either with my head between some girls legs, or with 
6 guys ready to inflict serious physical damage.  In the face of all of 
this, I remained a virgin.

I found a haven in theater.  Theater people were always pretending to be 
who they weren't.  I learned to "act" like a man (play characters and 
roles of men).  I often tried out for dress-up roles, but I never 
publicly came out.  Every halloween, I would want to go as a girl, but I 
would always lose my nerve and go as a clown instead.

In college, I went to Loretto Heights College.  This was a girls college 
consisting of 900 women, 20 gay men, 4 heterosexual men, and 1 male 
virgin (me).  I became a sorority "mascot", was accepted as one of the 
girls, and was even treated as one of the girls.

On the last day of the first semester of my freshman year.  The dance 
class gave me two pornographic magazines.  One was a bondage magazine, 
the other was a magazine about transvestites.  I realized that they knew, 
but I could never come out.

In my sophomore year, I lived on campus.  There were no actual 
accomodations for boys.  I used the ladies bathroom and showers, I lived 
with the girls, and went to the dorm parties.  I quickly ended up with a 
girl who used to call herself "Panzy".  She literally pulled me into my 
dorm room and asked me to seduce her.  I started to seduce her and went 
down on her.  After about 2 hours of several orgasms, she wanted to do 
me.  I started shaking, shivering, and panicing.  I told her I was a 
virgin.  She told me she wanted to continue this later in the evening.

That night, she asked me to tie her up.  I tied her up and started going 
down on her.  She was getting very noisy.  Suddenly there was a knock on 
the door.  The pounding became more insistant.  The voice shouted and 
Pansy said "that's my boyfriend".  I untied her, she walked out.  In 
about 15 minutes, there was another knock on the door.  Her boyfriend was 
pointing an 18 guage, double barreled shotgun at my groin.  He told me 
that if I ever screwed her, he would blow my guts off.  I didn't bother 
to correct his terminology.

Panzy was addicted to my mouth.  She would come to me and seduce me into 
going down on her, then, when she was about to beg me to copulate with 
her, she would put on a robe, run to some other guys room, and have 
intercourse with him.  I found out later, that she had also threatened to 
screw the boyfriend of any girl who came within 20 feet of my bedroom.  I 
had become a practicing lesbian lover of a bisexual woman.  She even told 
me she had had women lovers before and that she liked me because I was so 
much like a woman.  Every bisexual lover I've had since has said exactly 
the same thing.

I finally lost my virginity (male virginity that is) when I was 21.  This 
girl who bought her clothes from Fredericks and looked like Linda 
Ronstadt literally had to have a match-maker start the sexuality action.  
I called her for a date. We went to see "Silver Streak" and she wanted to 
have sex with me in the car.  I went down on her and satisfied her that 
way.  She then told me she wanted to have intercourse.  I got a condom, 
fumbled with it, went into the shakes, and when she asked what was wrong, 
I said "Pardon me miss, but I've never done this with a real live girl", 
she was so delighted that I was willing to use a condom, willing to admit 
my inexperience, and willing to accept that I couldn't do it, that she 
set up a date for saturday noon.

When I got her house, she took me into her bedroom, complete with canopy 
bed and satin sheets and comforter.  She undressed and I went down on 
her.  After about four orgasms, she said "You can't be a virgin" , I put 
my hands behind my head and said "Only from the waist down" (I was still 
wearing my pants).  She took off my pants, mounted me on the bed, and we 
made love for about 4 hours.  I didn't come.

We actually made love about 6 times before she tied me to the bed,
blindfolded me, and started seducing me as if I was a woman.  I had
visions of her in a dress, me in a dress, and us dancing, seducing each
other, and having lesbian sex.  In a matter of about an hour, I was having
an orgasm.  I proposed about 3 days later.

About 3 months later, she wanted to make love and had just taken her dress
off.  She hadn't taken her pantihose off yet.  I got very aggressive and 
amourous.  She realized that I was enjoying the feel of the stockings.  
She then said "At least you don't want to WEAR them".  I went numb.  
About two weeks later, I found a note on my car.  She told me that she 
couldn't see me anymore.  I found out later that she married a very 
wealthy young man.

> also, i am interested in your "theories" about what causes tg-ism.  
I think gender identity is much like sexual preference.  If you aren't 
born with it, you develop it at such a young age that you really don't 
know what it means at the time.  When I was 2 and 3, girls were just boys 
with longer hair.  If I didn't get a haircut, I'd be a girl too.

Boys are just girls who have more testosterone.  Without testosterone, 
genetic males would be born females.  There are many things that can 
reduce the level of testosterone during development (drinking, drugs, 
stress, diet, exercise, other maternal activities), after birth 
(sterioids, effedrine, epinepherine, adrenal activity, diet), and during 
childhood and puberty (heat, drugs, alcohol, illnesses).  While none of 
these is sufficient to turn a man into a woman, they are enough to alter 
the limbic reactions.  Males have larger limbic nodes. This makes them 
more inclined to fight than to hide or run.  This was probably important 
when war, animals, and trespassers were daily threats.  A man who didn't 
fight would rapidly become extinct or with minimal progeny.

After WWII, many women were relocated around the country with their 
soldier husbands.  A new lifestyle based on the self-contained nuclear 
family became the predominant cultural model.  Unfortunately, for many 
women, the stress of moving, lack of support from family and friends, and 
other stresses during pregnancy, along with the socially accepted 
practice of smoking, drinking, and prescription drug abuse caused many 
men who appeared normal but hand less developed limbic systems.

There are other factors.  During the 1960's, women were redifining their 
roles in the world, but men seemed to be "closing ranks".  Men became 
more determined to establish masculinity not in terms of what women did 
or didn't do, but in terms of what men couldn't or shouldn't do.  Boys 
don't play with dolls, wear dresses, play with make-up, or even get 
terribly concerned about their appearance or their relationship to 
family.

Gender conformity, in the post-feminism age is actually illogical.  If 
women can be effective workers, activists, and warriors, why shouldn't 
men have the option of becoming mothers, caregivers, and supporters?  It 
is the irrational stigma that causes men to try and counterbalance in 
order to "look good".  It's O.K. for Arnold Swhartzenegger to be "Mr. 
Mom", but only if he can out-drink, out-fight, and out-fuck everyone in 
some other movie.

Most men are very reluctant to come out and say "I wish I could be a 
woman".  It is only in the American liberal culture that this is all that 
desirable.  In most cultures, women are so oppressed, abused, and even 
mutilated, that womanhood is considered the worst thing that can happen 
to a man.   In many cultures women's clits are removed, they are managed 
like cattle, they are not allowed to masturbate, and are not encouraged 
to enjoy sex.  Their sole purpose is to provide pleasure for men and bear 
and nurse children.  In some cultures boys are put with the men as soon 
as they are weaned.

In America, the transgendered man represents an interesting phenomena.  
Most TGs are feminists, believing that certain aspects of the female 
gender role are superior to the male role.  TGs are often quite willing 
to commit themselves to the pleasure of a woman, even at the cost of 
delaying or reducing their own.  They are more in tune with sensuality, 
emotionality, spirituality, and sexuality.  I have known some TGs who 
actually deny themselves intercourse and/or ejaculation because it 
affirms their masculine side.  Personally, I try to minimize the effects 
and visibility.  I am also multi-orgasmic since ejaculation is not my 
primary sexual aim.

> I'm not too thrilled by most of the stuff i've read on this subject.
Neither am I.  There is very little on the subject outside of some 
pornographic bookstores who carry IFGE publications.  There are about 10 
publishers who put out paperback publications.

Part of the problem is that transexuality can oftem be practiced in 
solitude.  Many transvestites never tell anyone.  They don't even need to 
go to another woman, they just become the other women when no one is 
around.  Prostitutes often try to get transvestites hooked on B&D or S&M 
because then the man must have a sexual partner.

If you looked very carefully into the lives of most faithful monogomous 
married men, you will probably find some form of gender disphoria.  
There are even those within the religious right who exhibit effeminate 
behaviors.  Much of the homophobia has to do with the tendency of modern 
culture to assume that male chastity is an indicator of homosexuality.
Since these men are also less inclined to try and "prove their manhood" 
through irresponsible acts of violence, intoxication, and sexuality, they 
could be considered gender-benders too.

Most people don't realize that there are distinctions between TSs, TGs, TVs, 
and Gays.  As you know, most TGs are not homosexual (or they're male 
lesbians).  Female TGs are very common - they are called tom-boys.  Not 
all TGs are TVs.  Not all TVs are TGs.  Most Gays are not TG or TVs.  An 
a "drag queen" is often not TV, not TS, not TG.  In fact, they are 
sometimes not even gay.  I was at a "Drag Show" in a small town where you 
literally needed a dance card and a bodyguard or a date of the 
appropriate sex to sort out all the players.  There were TGs in leathers, 
Gay TVs, Gay TV/TGs, TSs for Men, TSs for Women, TV/TGs for woman, sissy 
boys for men, and sissy boys for women.  There were even some ladies in 
leather looking for Bi TV/TGs for a "Sandwich 3-some".

> I talk to my partner (shaun) frequently, but i would like more viewpoints.
> thanx,

This, and other BBSs are a great way to get them.  There is also a great 
deal of TS/TV/TG activity on AOL and Delphi in the private groups.  There 
is also a CB channel on Prodigy, and most area codes have adult boards 
where these things are openly discussed.  The internet is one of the few 
"Mainstream" resources.

> kristal 

	Debbie the Vundabitch


From rballard@cnj.digex.net Mon Oct  3 14:45:46 1994
Newsgroups: alt.personals.poly