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On Wed, 19 Oct 1994 an5533@anon.penet.fi wrote:

>   This is sort of an ad and sort of a question.  I have in the 
>   past posted ads like "late 30's GWM in Georgia iso top for playing",
>   and have met a several good guys, one in person and a couple by
>   email.  It was clear that what they wanted and what I wanted were
>   not too close to the same.  It's certainly not their fault, and
>   I think it's a problem with expression.

You are what is more commonly known as a "defiant bottom".  You don't want 
to just lie there and get tied up and whipped, you want someone to 
overpower you (emotionally or physically) and force you to do what you 
like against your protests.  For some tops, this can be fun.  I enjoy 
the ladies (sorry I'm not into guys), who dare me to push them beyond 
their current limits.

>   They obviously wanted a submissive, someone who would a priori
>   let them do what they wanted and would do whatever they demanded.
There are a lot of tops who are in it for the power trip.  There is an 
old joke:
	The ultimate submissive: "Whip me, beat me, hurt me"
	The ultimate dominant: "No, get away from me you little pervert"
	The ultimate submissive: "Oh, thank you so much"

Ironicly control freaks often degenerate into that kind of relationship.  
The top ends up doing what he wants and the slave could get blue-balls 
for all he cares.  For hard core D&S action, find a fundamentalist 
christian and tell him you're gay.  Personally, it's not my thing.

>   That's what I thought I was, but maybe I'm really just a bottom
>   willing to fight back.  If I didn't submit without question or
>   resistance, they would pout and threaten to close off communication.
>   Not exactly what I admire and even fear in a top; certainly not
>   something that makes me want to submit.  
Often, tops are just bottoms who are doing the duty for a while.  The 
best tops are actually bottoms who switch.  There is something about 
torturing someone when you know that you will be completely at their 
mercy in just a few hours.


>   I'd kind of like to know what others think about this; tops 
>   especially.  I've come to the conclusion that it was miscommunication -
>   many tops really do want a partner to be submissive and to find
>   one who fights back is a real turnoff.  Are there any tops
>   out there (and especially down here!) who like this kind of 
>   bottom?

Just be specific and distinguish yourself as a defiant bottom.  Some tops 
will really get off on the conquest trip. "What's your name", "Kunta 
Kinte",whack whack, "Okay, I'm Toby" (Roots).

Generally, you need to have a slave contract/agreement, something in 
writing.  There is a thin line between taming a defiant bottom and raping 
him/her.  If the agreement is that you are going to fight back and want 
to have all protests except the code-word ignored, that needs to be 
documented.

Most tops would rather just deal with streight open communication.  If 
you like the stroke, they will do it again.  If you don't like it, 
they'll do something else.  Submissive bottoms are much easier to deal 
with because as you approach their boundries, they communicate it 
directly.  Defiant bottoms want their boundries pushed.

Are you into the fear trip?  Into "pennance scenes", or "torture the 
prisoner" scenes?  Mostly watch out for the ones who want you to sign a 
contract which abolishes your rights to set boundries...unless you're 
into condoms filled with fish-hooks.

	Debbie




From rballard@cnj.digex.net Tue Oct 25 02:05:11 1994
Newsgroups: alt.personals.bondage